[flying fox]

I just found out that it is TSC's anniversary tomorrow. I have suggested a race tomorrow and some people are interested in it. I know it's really short notice but is anyone up for a race to celebrate it tomorrow? Not sure what game yet :/

[Werey]

B-I-N-G-O and BINGO WAS ITS NAME-O

[Thorn]

[3:33:20 PM] Thorn: all of the Genesis / SEGA CD / 32X games in a row
[3:33:27 PM] Thorn: put a time limit of five hours
[3:33:36 PM] Thorn: most progress wins

[Cream147]

I have to vote for Bingo, I need repayment for the hours I spent fixing my mistakes in javascript, which means I need to play as much bingo as possible.

[Shadow Jacky]

I'm off tomorrow, so I could do this.

[flying fox]

Bingo appears to be winning. Don't know if you guys want the same time of 5pm EDT or arrange your own time between yourselves.

[sonikkusama]

5pm might be a little too early for me, i have to go in to work late tomorrow. i'll try my best to be home by 5 if that is what everyone else wants though

[DarkAura]

Can we do Sonic Advance 2?

[DarkAura]

Do you mean push back as in six o'clock? I have dinner then... I can only do five.

[Bilan]

If you can only do 5 you're probably shit out of luck anyway as bingo will probably take over an hour?

[Cream147]

If you can only do 5 you're probably shit out of luck anyway as bingo will probably take over an hour?

Yeah, it will

[DarkAura]

I mean.. I don't have to be at dinner at six, as it stays open for an hour. I can't start at six though.

[flying fox]

Try and get something close to organised by 9am EDT tomorrow. By then I'll let you know what the game is and time for the race. At the moment bingo is winning and 6pm EDT.

[DarkAura]

Is it okay if we start just a little bit after 6? I just need to sign in for dinner. I can microwave something later. Like 6:10?

[Cream147]

I'm cool with a small adjustment later like 6:10. Not much more as it will start getting too late for me.

[Cream147]

So just so people know what we're potentially getting into with this, Sonic bingo is a game played using multiple Sonic games (any ones you like) completing goals on a bingo grid that looks something like this. The objective is to complete a row or column or a long diagonal of this grid. You may use a maximum of 3 different games. (Other rules are listed by the card)

By no means do you need to have every Sonic game there is, or every Sonic game on the card - you can avoid rows and columns that involve games you do not have. I do recommend you have a reasonable smattering of Sonic games, including one of SADX/SA2B and a few 2D ones, presuming that we are gong to be playing the mixed 2D/3D card (which no one has indicated otherwise).

The estimated time of completion of a normal length card is just over 2 hours.

[flying fox]

If nobody says anything else in an hours time I'm going to assume people are happy with bingo and having the race at 6pm EDT.

[Thorn]

As I told Hyper, the Bingo rules still need some refinement.

In Sonic CD, what most games call Acts are instead called Zones, with the traditional Zones called Rounds. So "Complete Quartz Quadrant Zone (Sonic CD)" allows me to finish after Zone 1 instead of the full round as intended. Likewise, Chaotix calls Acts Levels and Zones are called either Stages or Attractions, depending on where in the manual you look; the game has one Zone called Newtrogic High in which everything else takes place. This would make any "zone" request in Chaotix infeasible as the entire game would need to be played, and there wouldn't be any way to do Act challenges. Sonic Heroes has Special Stage Act 1 all the way through Act 7. Heck, Sonic Adventure calls them "Action Stages", and this name sticks around for a few games. A standard definition of a single stage or area needs to be made and explained for every possible game.

For "Obtain x Chaos Emeralds", does story progression count? If I beat Casinopolis in Sonic Adventure as Sonic or Tails, I have two Chaos Emeralds for about 30 seconds before Eggman steals one.

For "Score x points on any Act y", can Special Stages be used within the Act? Do I need to finish the act, or does it count as soon as I reach the point requirement? For "Score x points on 1 zone", do I need to finish the zone, or does it count if I finish the act in which I reach that amount, or does it count as soon as I reach the point requirement? If a game doesn't have zones, can I score a certain amount in one area of the game?

For "Get 10 S/A Ranks", if I get an A rank in a game that supports S ranks, does it still count?

If I need to collect a certain amount of rings, how do I deal with a ring counter that maxes out (Chaotix) or rolls over to 0 (many 8-bit games)?

For "Collect x rings between 2 acts of the same zone", must those two acts be consecutive, or may they be any two? In this case, must I finish the entire zone, or may I stop after my chosen second act? Likewise, does "Collect x rings between 2 zones" require two consecutive zones? If I finish this in one zone, must I play the second zone anyway?

For "Get x lives", does that mean I increase my life count from the default to x, or do I *earn* x lives and end at the default + x? Does it mean within one game, or across my three games (e.g., "Get 20 lives"; my three games start with life counts of 3, 4, and 4, and I end with 10, 15, and 6, for a total earning of 20 lives, or the same but with the initial 11 counting towards the 20)?

SRL rules say to start from the title screen for most Sonic games; do we have three title screens running at once to start, or do we boot one game at a time (i.e., two games start from powering on)?

For the "five separate bonus stages goal", S3&K has three, Chaotix has one, and Spinball has four. Thus, at least two of these games must be used (except the S3&K/Chaotix combination)... doesn't that lock in your game selection a little tightly, since you can only use three for the entire card?

SRL has game listings for several Sonic ROM hacks (my hack, MegaMix, and a broad "Sonic 1 ROM hacks" category without a matching one for Sonic 2 or 3&K); I assume that the Bingo allows official games only?

More problems to come as I see them, I'm sure...

[DarkAura]

It might help to know what Bingo is... What is it?

[flying fox]

It might help to know what Bingo is... What is it?

So just so people know what we're potentially getting into with this, Sonic bingo is a game played using multiple Sonic games (any ones you like) completing goals on a bingo grid that looks something like this. The objective is to complete a row or column or a long diagonal of this grid. You may use a maximum of 3 different games. (Other rules are listed by the card)

By no means do you need to have every Sonic game there is, or every Sonic game on the card - you can avoid rows and columns that involve games you do not have. I do recommend you have a reasonable smattering of Sonic games, including one of SADX/SA2B and a few 2D ones, presuming that we are gong to be playing the mixed 2D/3D card (which no one has indicated otherwise).

The estimated time of completion of a normal length card is just over 2 hours.

[Cream147]

With regards to a lot of what you say Thorn, I will say that the answer is "it's allowed until the rules say it isn't". However, there are definitely a number of points that need clarifying and I'm working on it.

1) Acts, zones and stages have now been defined in the rules in terms of what they mean in Sonic bingo. However, I will be changing the goals for Sonic CD to be clearer.

2) For now, yes, although I may disallow this as it could be open to interpreation.

3) With regards to entering special stages, until I say otherwise. I may need to define the finishing point for this goal a bit better, but it's basically as soon as the game has awarded you all the points you need, irregardless of whether you've completed the acts/zones or not.

4) For now, yes, although I may change this. The problem is people may not be aware which games have S ranks and which don't.

5) Hmm...this one needs thought. I could just make it so the number of rings the counter reads is the number you have, but that seems unfair, particularly in GG games as you will never be able to get over 100.

6) It doesn't ask for consecutive, so I don't really see this as ambiguous. Again, I would say as soon as you have the rings you're done.

7) Will change the goal to "Have X lives on the life counter". This is horifically ambiguous as it stands.

8) This one is the player's choice, because you don't actually choose the games you're going to play until after the race has started because that's when the card is given.

9) Goal changed to include special stages.

10) Rules now do not allow hacks, fangames or prototypes.

[Thorn]

Okay, I see the rules have been tweaked.

4. To enter a level or boss you must have completed every level or boss that comes before it in the normal chronology of the game during the run.
Therefore, if I want to play as a certain character in Advance games or Rush games (which allow starting from a non-empty save by rule 3), I must play all the acts leading up to the character's unlocking, then play as the character from the start, right? For example, if I want to play Hot Crater as Cream for whatever reason, I need to beat Leaf Forest as Sonic, then start from Leaf Forest again as Cream?

5. An act is an individual level in a 2D Sonic game. A zone is a collection of all the acts in a game with the same name (excluding the act number obviously). A stage is an individual level in a 3D game. All Generations levels are stages, classic or modern. Adventure fields, chao gardens, chao world are all not levels.
So the Acts of Sonic Colors are not acts because it is in 3D? You explicitly mention that the acts of Generations (and I assume you mean the 3D version and NOT the 2D one) are stages, but Colors is not mentioned. Also with respect to rule 5, Egg Rocket 1 and Cosmic Angel 2 are both Zone 6 in Sonic Advance, but by this rule, they are separate zones; is this what was intended?

Lastly, for "Complete 2 unique Stages/Zones each as Sonic, Tails and Knuckles", does this mean that Heroes would require six stages to be played, or two? Does "unique" count across characters or only within them?

[SpanielWare]

I think that for the Advance and Rush games, one should only have to play zones in chronological order for that character, so for SAdv2 if you wanted to play Hot Crater as Cream, you would just need to beat Leaf Forest first as Cream, not with Sonic. Also, the rules should be amended to make Colors Acts count as 3D stages, and for Egg Rocket 1 and Cosmic Angel 2 to count as two acts of the same zone.

Also Thorn, rule 7 says "Beating the same level or boss with different characters only counts as 1 'unique' level or boss, even if that level is different when using another character". However this doesn't answer the question about Heroes, but I would recommend having to run with three teams in Heroes in place of Sonic, Tails and Knux.

Sorry for poor wording, I hope this makes sense.

[SpanielWare]

I just checked the Sonic Bingo page again, and rule 8 says, "Goals requiring you to play or beat a certain character can be fulfilled by playing as or beating the team with that character in Sonic Heroes." Does this mean that you'd have to play six different stages as Team Sonic (beating two with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles as lead character respectively) to beat the "Complete 2 unique Stages/Zones each as Sonic, Tails and Knuckles" goal?

EDIT: It's been changed to rule 10, it was rule 8 when I wrote this post originally. Also this has been added to rule 6: 'Exception: Egg Rocket and Cosmic Angel in Sonic Advance are one zone'.

[DarkAura]

Ok, I think I got the rules. Are Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Chaos, and Sonic 1 good choices?

[Thorn]

...you don't actually choose the games you're going to play until after the race has started because that's when the card is given.

If you choose beforehand, you're limiting yourself.

[Bilan]

Just thought I'd chime in to point out that if you already have 10 rules, you're probably over-complicating the whole thing~

No one wants to have to check a massive page of rules and clarifications just to make sure they aren't doing something wrong in fun (TM) event

Edit: additionally, it's a bit gimpy to state "choose any 3 games you want for this" but then have goals that actually force you to play X game.

For example, Column 2 straight up forces you to play SADX, Sonic 2 and Advance 3.

[Thorn]

http://sonicbingo.webs.com/bingo-rev-1?seed=502283&mode=long

I'm just going to leave this here. Four goals appear on the grid twice and the middle row is impossible as it requires four games when the competition rules only allow three.

[Cream147]

http://sonicbingo.webs.com/bingo-rev-1?seed=502283&mode=long

I'm just going to leave this here. Four goals appear on the grid twice and the middle row is impossible as it requires four games when the competition rules only allow three.

These problems are far worse in long (and short) cards than normal. It will be fixed as more goals are added.

[Thorn]

^ I'll second what Anonycat said: if you have 25 goals for each category, this should not happen under any circumstances, no matter how many goals beyond 25 you have. I feel that Bingo was launched prematurely if you don't have that many goals.